cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

PSoC 5, 3 & 1

HuEl_264296
New Contributor II

 I am developing a PCB for an analogue sensing application. It uses the 12-bit Delta Sigma ADC on a PSoC3. As usual, the application is very space constrained (11mm x 21mm), so I have had to make some compromises in the PCB layout which I would not have done on a larger PCB.

   

The board is supplied by regulated 6v, and contains two 5v linear regulators. An MCP1702 for the digital supply, and an MIC5205 for the analogue supply. The board is sensing five A1324 Hall effect sensors. Each Hall effect output signal is filtered by a 100nF + 1k RC filter. One sensor is on the PCB itself (bottom right). The other 4 plug into the right hand 6-pin connector.

The chip is acting as an SPI slave, but ADC samples are always taken between SPI transactions, so the SPI should not interfere with the analogue signals.

Sadly, I am still seeing some noise (about 1.5 LSB at 12-bits) on the analogue signals, and I wonder if there is anything I could have done differently (in the layout or otherwise) to improve it.

   

Other PCB designs I have done using the MCP2308, and the same dual 5v supplies, same sensors, and same RC filters have achieved no noticeable noise at 12 bits.

I would really like to push it towards 12 ENOB. The reason is not accuracy, but velocity measurement. Currently this level of noise is making it impossible to do accurate position and velocity control on a robot.

0 Likes
6 Replies
ETRO_SSN583
Esteemed Contributor

In a 5 V system, 12V, 1/2 lsb = ~ .6 mV. In my opinion anything < 5 LSBs pretty good

   

in a mixed signal design. One method of looking at noise, pk-pk, is scope on infinite

   

persistance, and watch the supply rails.

   

 

   

You might look at PSRR and nosie specs on regulators, in a 12 bit system they may be

   

significant. Also type of caps you are using.

   

 

   

Some useful references -

   

 

   

http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/kemet/Replacing-MnO2-with-Conductive-Polymer-in-Tantalum-Cap...
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/294542582256114777959693992461771205AN...
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/60011428695520149489604926984551317555...
 

   

http://www.cypress.com/?rID=39677

   

 

   

Regards, Dana.

0 Likes
HuEl_264296
New Contributor II

5 LSB?!  If I got 5 LSB of noise I would consider that to be a complete disaster!

   

Nevertheless, is there anything you can see on the layout that might be affecting the S/N ?

0 Likes
HuEl_264296
New Contributor II

 Also, if a PSoC can't be expected to achieve more than 10.5 ENOB, why do some have a 16-bit ADC?

   

 

   

Will a 16-bit ADC have only 1.5LSB noise, and therefore achieve 14.5 ENOB?

0 Likes
HeLi_263931
Honored Contributor II

I think dana meant '5 counts', which is more like 2.5 bits. Given that 1 bit means 0.6mV, this would be a noise of about 3mV.

0 Likes
HeLi_263931
Honored Contributor II

Oh, and regarding your original question: there is AppNote AN57821 - PSoC3 and PSoC5 Mixed Signal Circuit Board Layout Considerations ( http://www.cypress.com/?rID=39677 ) which should help you. It explains what is needed for achievinbg even 20bits performance.

   

(Its difficult to tell from the image, since one cannot see the components, but I would guess you didn't separate the PSoC supply and the ground signals into a digital and a analog domain. This would mean that changes in the load introduce noise voltage spikes on these signals - and on ground they are deadly for precision)

0 Likes
ETRO_SSN583
Esteemed Contributor

I actually meant 5 lsbs. If you look at a typical board environment,

   

often you will see 200 - 400 mV noise on supply rail, and if you

   

do not separate A and D grounds, joing them at a single point of entry,

   

at board edge, you are asking for trouble.

   

 

   

Its not a PSOC issue, its a system issue. How many people do an end to end

   

noise, offset, temp, PSRR, thermo budget in a design. Few I would posit, except

   

the HPs and Tektronix and Marconis of the test world. How many actually look at

   

C ESR curves and SPICE simulate the power environment ? Its my personal belief

   

a lot of stuff gets put out there stating "I have 20 bits" but nowhere to be found is

   

nosie and actual accuracy and drift. Thats because when you try to do a full 12 bit,

   

1/2 LSB over all error and temp and V, you suddenly discover how difficult that actually

   

is.

   

 

   

Take a look at the ploymer caps, they are an order of magnitude better ESR vs F

   

for bulk needs. And C behaves a lot better with V.

   

 

   

Regards, Dana.

0 Likes