PSoC™ 5, 3 & 1

Anonymous
Not applicable

True random generator help

Hi all

Many thanks Kamil

25 Replies
Level 10
Level 10

Re: True random generator help

Not too easy to accomplish, but have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_generator Bob (again: small window)
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Some time ago, we use a fast running counter and read the data when we need a random number, and the output pattern was pretty random, but not sure if that can pass all those randomess test. 🙂
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Im find this great project      http://www.psocdeveloper.com/tools/misc-dev-tools.html (Random Number User Module) but not working in new Designer v5.4.

Is possible help me port this module to new Designer ?

Many thanks Kamil

Level 9
Level 9

Re: True random generator help

Do you need this for generating analog noise or a digital sequence

generator ?

Analog, take a look at this, zener and other based, use PGA to amplify - www.ciphersbyritter.com/NOISE/NOISRC.HTM

Digital - The PRS module in Designer, "Random Seq" folder of module explorer window.

Regards, Dana.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Please note that the one in the UM is a pseudo random number generator, But you mentioned that you want a TRUE random number generator. They are not the same.

Level 9
Level 9

Re: True random generator help

The differences in Psuedo vs True -

www.random.org/randomness/

Regards, Dana.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

My idea is true random generator, but thanks usefull info.

Kamil

Level 10
Level 10

Re: True random generator help

So, an easy method could be to use the noise of a zener-diode, get it amplified to a reasonable value, filtered to get rid of the frequencies above the conversion frequency and then converted to a digital number preferrably with a s&h circuit at the input of the ADC.

Bob

Level 9
Level 9

Re: True random generator help

When you apply a filter, be it H(s,t), or a finite word length computation

process, like an A/D, algorithim, the "randomness quality" declines.

than you want to know.

www.cypress.com/

Regards., Dana.

Level 10
Level 10

Bob

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Im aprox. rewriting (Ilya Mamontov Random Number User Module) module from this site for Designer v5.4     http://www.psocdeveloper.com/tools/misc-dev-tools.html

The project works but I do not know it is really True random !!!

CY8C29466

Pin P0[1] - CounterOut - like main clock

Pin P0[0] - DigitalRnd - true random bitstream ?

Pin P0[5] - AnalogRnd - true random analog signal ?

Original description from Ilya Mamontov module manual is "The operation is based on utilization of
thermal and semiconductor noise."

Level 9
Level 9

Re: True random generator help

AN2226 is also a psuedo random approach.

Regards, Dana.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Have you read Dana sggestion? The differences in Psuedo vs True - www.random.org/randomness/ Regards, Dana. The differences in Psuedo vs True - www.random.org/randomness/
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

I thing analog semiconductor noise is true random !

See Ilya text  "absolutely random" !

The Random UM generates a random bit stream on Column Comparator Bus. The main goal of this UM is the fact that the bit sequence is absolutely random. You can use this sequence as a signal for analog and digital blocks or read it directly in software.

Author: Ilya Mamontov  "

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Didn't notices this. Shall read it thru again.

Level 9
Level 9

Re: True random generator help

I am not so sure that Semi noise is "True" random noise.

Semi devices are characterized at the atomic level as having quantum states, therefore

not continuous, finite.

Thermal Noise      - http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/35911/is-thermal-noise-quantum-random

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson%E2%80%93Nyquist_noise            Nearly, but not totally

Shot Noise             - Maybe closest to white, but not a semi phenomina

Popcorn Noise      - Process based noise.

Flicker                      - Process dependent.

Regards, Dana

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Hi Dana Thank usefull info and links Kamil P.S. randomity and chaos is very interesting theme
Employee
Employee

Re: True random generator help

There is also a library function "int rand(void)" in ICC compiler. Refer "C Language Compiler User Guide" for details.
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Those are all psudo random generator. not true random number generator

Level 10
Level 10

Re: True random generator help

Dima, when you look at the first posts in this thread you will find links to explanations of "True" and "Pseudo" random generators. Since (as far as I understand) the order was to create a "True" generator there is the need to connect a PSoC to some random physical process like noise of radiation or thermal noise (which will not always be white noise afak)

(CAN YOU HERE ME? or too much noise?? )

Bob

Level 9
Level 9

Re: True random generator help

So little time, so much to learn......

www.random.org/analysis/

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

@dana,

Interesting paper.

Tks

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Yes this is very interresting paper !

Many thanks

Employee
Employee

Re: True random generator help

If your looking for an ANALOG random noise generator, see the attached article draft, it will be published in a few weeks. If your are looking for a digital random number generator, you can simply set up a timer and read the PRS output. How random do you need? A 32 bit PRS clocked at 1 MHz repeats every 1.19 hours, and you can use more blocks to make it longer. 40 bits gets 305 hour repeats. ---- Dennis
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: True random generator help

Thanks usefull info

Kamil