- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Hi all
Please help me how to make simple method TRNG (true random generator) from analog internal component for Psoc1 (CY8C29466)
Many thanks Kamil
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Im find this great project http://www.psocdeveloper.com/tools/misc-dev-tools.html (Random Number User Module) but not working in new Designer v5.4.
Is possible help me port this module to new Designer ?
Many thanks Kamil
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Do you need this for generating analog noise or a digital sequence
generator ?
Analog, take a look at this, zener and other based, use PGA to amplify - www.ciphersbyritter.com/NOISE/NOISRC.HTM
Digital - The PRS module in Designer, "Random Seq" folder of module explorer window.
Regards, Dana.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Please note that the one in the UM is a pseudo random number generator, But you mentioned that you want a TRUE random number generator. They are not the same.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
My idea is true random generator, but thanks usefull info.
Kamil
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
So, an easy method could be to use the noise of a zener-diode, get it amplified to a reasonable value, filtered to get rid of the frequencies above the conversion frequency and then converted to a digital number preferrably with a s&h circuit at the input of the ADC.
Bob
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
When you apply a filter, be it H(s,t), or a finite word length computation
process, like an A/D, algorithim, the "randomness quality" declines.
An interesting thread on the problem, google the problem, more info
than you want to know.
Regards., Dana.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Link leads to posting, is that an invitation or a typo?
Bob
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Im aprox. rewriting (Ilya Mamontov Random Number User Module) module from this site for Designer v5.4 http://www.psocdeveloper.com/tools/misc-dev-tools.html
The project works but I do not know it is really True random !!!
CY8C29466
Pin P0[1] - CounterOut - like main clock
Pin P0[0] - DigitalRnd - true random bitstream ?
Pin P0[5] - AnalogRnd - true random analog signal ?
Original description from Ilya Mamontov module manual is "The operation is based on utilization of
thermal and semiconductor noise."
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
AN2226 is also a psuedo random approach.
Regards, Dana.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Yes im read this
I thing analog semiconductor noise is true random !
See Ilya text "absolutely random" !
" The Random UM generates a random bit stream on Column Comparator Bus. The main goal of this UM is the fact that the bit sequence is absolutely random. You can use this sequence as a signal for analog and digital blocks or read it directly in software.
Author: Ilya Mamontov "
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Didn't notices this. Shall read it thru again.
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
I am not so sure that Semi noise is "True" random noise.
Semi devices are characterized at the atomic level as having quantum states, therefore
not continuous, finite.
Thermal Noise - http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/35911/is-thermal-noise-quantum-random
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson%E2%80%93Nyquist_noise Nearly, but not totally
Shot Noise - Maybe closest to white, but not a semi phenomina
Popcorn Noise - Process based noise.
Flicker - Process dependent.
Regards, Dana
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Those are all psudo random generator. not true random number generator
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Dima, when you look at the first posts in this thread you will find links to explanations of "True" and "Pseudo" random generators. Since (as far as I understand) the order was to create a "True" generator there is the need to connect a PSoC to some random physical process like noise of radiation or thermal noise (which will not always be white noise afak)
(CAN YOU HERE ME? or too much noise?? )
Bob
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
@dana,
Interesting paper.
Tks
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Yes this is very interresting paper !
Many thanks
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content
Thanks usefull info
Kamil