Motor start is always unstable.

[JasonLEE]

Hello,

I want the motor to start smoothly, but maybe because it's sensorless, the motor won't start and I get a "Rotor Lock" error code.

Why is this so?
I attached a video.
Please check the video.

Can you solve this problem?

Please reply.

[Viswa]

Hi @JasonLEE 

Can you please provide with the latest .mc2 file?

We would like to understand the motor parameter configuration.

Best Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hello @Viswa 

The motor cannot be started and is constantly shaking.

Since then, "GK" and "Rotor Lock" have occurred.

UART works only once out of 10 times.

IPM is very expensive and very unreliable. It's a repeat of popping or not working all the time.

I've been developing it using Infineon products, but it's really serious. There's no progress.

Why isn't Hall Sensor recognized?

This problem occurred when the motor driver was built into the motor. I think it worked well when motor drive was outside.

Can I send Infineon's motor and hardware for help?

Please reply

[RupakC]

Hello @JasonLEE 

Before sending the motor and hardware, let us know which board and motor you are using. Was there any modifications to the last board? 
Please send us your latest schematics of the power board and motor datasheet. 

Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hi @RupakC 

Long time, no see.
How have you been?

I sent you the motor and the motor driver data I am are using before. Do you remember?

If you need more data, I will send it to you.

I attached Google Drive as a message.
Please check.

Only the expensive IM828XCC's IPM is really many damaged. What's really hard is that the motor is different every time it operates.
Sometimes it works well, but sometimes it doesn't even start. I hope it works well every time, but if there is a problem like this every time, it is very difficult to develop and commercialize it.

The price competitiveness is also very bad.
But I want to use the Infineon product.
please help me.
I have been struggling with this hardware for years now.

[qwertyqwq35]

Hi @JasonLEE ,

I complitly agree with you , infineon needs to focus to solve this unrelible  and unexpected works on its ipms and motor controller ic. Those semiconductors have really problamatic production line i think and this makes them the worst. Since i had to redesigned many of pcb and lots of order from world wide distributers still cannot drive motor smooth and stable yet. I think infineon is only focused for their own eval boards not for custom boards.

[JasonLEE]

Hello, @qwertyqwq35 

I totally agree with you.

I designed the reference design 100% accordingly, but there are so many problems that I haven't solved for years. Also, I've invested a lot of money in PCB redesign, but I still haven't solved the problem. And customized boards are actually not normal. It's not working properly.
And the unit price of IPM is ridiculously expensive. After choosing the Infineon design, I lost a lot of money.

Infineon engineers cannot solve this problem.

It's really frustrating.

[RupakC]

Hello @JasonLEE 

Based on the previous threads created, we worked on some issues related to the operation of two motors.

For the smaller motor, we resolved all of the issues and concluded that a bigger motor was needed that could carry more current than 5A.

For the larger motor, in https://community.infineon.com/t5/Motor-Control-ICs/I-have-started-testing-a-new-motor-However-the-R... , the following issues were observed:

1. RPM did not rise
2. IPM exploded.
3. Windings of the motor overheated and the motor became extremely overheated

We worked together and solved the first two issues. For the third problem, we understood that the current drawn by the motor to drive the load was more than the IPM rating so a design change was needed.

For the present issues, can you let us know what changes were made such that new problems are being observed.

Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hi, @RupakC 

I need your help.
The motor still does not operate normally.

When the start button on the motor is pressed, a "Gatekill" error is generated by the motor's. I don't know why.

Gatekill setting is 30A.

The motor cannot even start.

The motor is load-free.
I used a customized board, and only the EVAL board and the capacitor are different.

Can you calculate this part?

If the resistance of 270 kohm is wrong, please advise which resistance would be good to place.

Please reply.

  

 

[RupakC]

Hello @JasonLEE 

As per the earlier schematic shared, we see that the High side voltage divider has a 5Mohm resistance on the power board. The snippet shared is not available with us.

Gate kill fault will occur if the motor parameters are wrongly programmed. Please share the evalboard schematics and motor specifications for the present system.

Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hi.  Dr'@RupakC 

I share the circuit diagram.
I used is the parameter you provided me before. But it doesn't work now. The motor fails to start and a "GK" error occurs.
The motor specification is the same as before.

[RupakC]

Hello @JasonLEE 

1. What is the starting method of the motor? Can you please confirm if hall sensor is used to start the motor ?
2. In your last .mc2 file that I have, I can see that the gate kill filter time constant is 1us. Can you please increase it to 5us and check (Q94)? Please share the latest .mc2 file.
3. Please try setting the Gatekill input source (Q91) to comparator and check if the GK fault is triggered.
4. Please capture the Iu vs Motor speed waveform till the point when GK fault is triggered. I need to see if the motor current actually reaches above the 30A value that you have set for generating GK.
5. In the initial post, it is mentioned that rotor lock fault is also generated. Are you still getting that or is it resolved?

Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hi, Dr' @RupakC 

Thank you for your reply

1. I have inquired about this problem from before.
The Hall sensor is not working at all.
This hall sensor worked well on other hardware.
There seems to be a problem with the i-motion.
So I'm using sensorless.

I think we should use a system that starts with a hall sensor and converts it from high speed to sensorless.
However, i-motion does not recognize the hall sensor.

2. The latest .mc2 file is using the file you provided.

3. Yes. I'll try to set it up with a comparator.

4. Yes. I'll capture the speed waveform and send it to you.

5. It was "overtemperature" not a rotor lock issue, fault code incorrectly recognized. This problem has been solved.

6. I corrected the part you told me, but the problem did not improve and showed the same problem.

7.I just don't understand. There is no problem with the design of the hardware. It's very questionable why the motor suddenly doesn't work. It appears to be a problem on the parameter side, but the parameter worked well before. Too unreliable. I wonder if we can use "i-motion" to release the product. It's too long in place.

BestRegards
Jason

[JasonLEE]

Hello, @RupakC 

Please Help this problem.

I should to solve this problem quickly.

Please reply

Thanks

[JasonLEE]

Hello..

[JasonLEE]

Hello,

Is there no one there?

[JasonLEE]

Is there anyone who can help me solve this problem?

The motor fails to start and produces tremendous noise.

I think there's something wrong with the parameter, but I can't find it. Can you help me solve the problem with remote support?

And it seems that the i-motion does not recognize the hall sensor.
How do I solve this problem?

Sensorless control is very unstable at the start of the motor and often fails to start. Releasing this product significantly reduces reliability.

Please help me. A lot of time has passed.

[RupakC]

Hello @JasonLEE 

The imotion Eval-boards have no known issues. We worked together and solved all the issues you were facing earlier. Right now, we believe that the issue is with tuning of the motor parameters or some configuration settings which need to be set through multiple experiments.

Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hi, @RupakC 

Your answer is very irresponsible.
I shared everything. Can't you provide a solution?

I customized it the same as the Eval board. Why doesn't the motor work?
The hall sensor is also not recognized.

I can't solve it on my own terms. Can you help me remotely or in real time?
I have a problem with the start part and I need to fix this.
I've tried fixing everything that's small, but it doesn't work.

I think it would be good to solve only the beginning of the motor first. I think the hall sensor can be solved after that.

[RupakC]

Hello @JasonLEE 

I have the following points to know :

1. For the present case, did you check if the motor operates normally with Infineon Evaluation board EVAL-M1-IM828-A? We would like to first fix the issue on the Infineon Evaluation board. This would provide a base for understanding the problem.

In parallel, please check the following on the custom board:

1. We observed a current spike of 30A from the video attached. This is not normal motor behavior. Please check for continuity of the IPM. For this, you can check for continuity between pin 24 (i.e. the positive bus input voltage) and other three output pins 21, 22 ad 23 (motor phase output)
2. Additionally, also check for continuity between the pins 21, 22, 23 (motor phase output) and NU,NV,NW (Low side source).
3. Please ensure that there is no short circuit anywhere on the board.

With your results, please let me know if the testing is done with load or without load. 

Regards

[JasonLEE]

Hello,  Dr' @RupakC 

* EVAL - IM828 *

1. All right, I have an EVAL-IM828 board. I will test it again with this board. I will test with this board first and tell you the result and attach the waveform.

* Customized board *

1. The motor will not run even with no load.

2. I can check if there is a short circuit. I will do a short circuit test on this board.

3. Yes. I will tell you the result after continuity test.

[JasonLEE]

Hello, @RupakC 

* EVAL - IM828 *

Tested with eval board.
The motor is still inoperative.
The same parameters have been entered and the motor does not respond.
I attached the waveform. Please check.

- The motor has no load. -
- I started the motor at 220v because there might be overcurrent. -

* Customized board *

I did a continuity test.
There is no short circuit in the part you told me.
There is no short circuit across the PCB.
The board design is very normal.

I think there is a problem with the parameter somewhere.

[JasonLEE]

Hi, @RupakC 

The waveform of the Hall sensor was measured.
Please check this waveform.

 

[RupakC · Accepted solution]

After testing, it was found that the Hall sensors connected to the motors were 60 electrical degrees spaced apart. 

For iMotion systems, the Hall sensors must be spaced 120 electrical degrees apart. Therefore the Hall invalid error was displayed and the system did not work. 

Regards