Apr 25, 2020
02:20 AM

- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content

Apr 25, 2020
02:20 AM

Hi All,

i am working for some months with the FOC library and some PMSM motors. The library is really good. Takes some time to set-up but I would like to try the new MCE tools: Designes and Wizard.

Besides, the new range of IPM's are really powerful: there are a lot of deivces, that cover the most frequent motor applications; in fact, you can easily drive motors from few watts to Kw.

In the field of domestic and semi-professional appliances, powers up to 1.000 watt cover the 90% of the possibilities.

Since the space is a critical aspect, especially in domestic and/or handy tools, I would like to underline there is some lack of information regarding the axuliary power supply current consuption.

I try to explain better: in order to reduce as much as possible the space and the cost of the circuit, most applications drive the motor directly from the MAINS: 110 or 220 VAC. This means that you only need an EMI filter, a bridge rectifier and a snubber capacitor.

If you do not care about the torque ripple if often happens that there is no snubber cap.

That said, there is the need to obtain an auxiliary voltage, from 12 to 18 Volt (best is 15 Volt DC), needed by the IPM for the logic parts, and also another 5VDC / 3.3 VDC for the microcontroller. Considering that the microcontroller section should need something between 10 to 30mA, it is CRUCIAL to

understand HOW MUCH CURRENT the Auxiliary Logic Part of the IPM needs to work correctly,

This is really important because you can build an auxiliary PS with very few components (consider for example the LNK30x series coming from Power Integrations, that need just teo diodes, and inductor and two caps).

But these solutions can drive up to 200mA.

How can we be sure that 200/250 mA are enough for our motor applications?

I made some tests, with a PMSM motor that has a power of 500 / 600 W rated power. The maximum speed is 12.000 RPM

Please find attached a couple of screenshots taken from a DSO Rigol DS1074.

The pictures show the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor in series of a 15VDC Power Supply that drives a ICK10H60 IPM, a module for up to 10A applications.

As you can see, there is a relevant peak of current related to the PWM switching frequency. The PWM freq. of the FOC driver is setted a 16Khz.

I would like, if possible, to have more informations and more tables from INFINEON. I assume they made a lot of tests regarding this topic.

I am happy to further discuss and get deeper in this topic.

Best Regards

Fabio

i am working for some months with the FOC library and some PMSM motors. The library is really good. Takes some time to set-up but I would like to try the new MCE tools: Designes and Wizard.

Besides, the new range of IPM's are really powerful: there are a lot of deivces, that cover the most frequent motor applications; in fact, you can easily drive motors from few watts to Kw.

In the field of domestic and semi-professional appliances, powers up to 1.000 watt cover the 90% of the possibilities.

Since the space is a critical aspect, especially in domestic and/or handy tools, I would like to underline there is some lack of information regarding the axuliary power supply current consuption.

I try to explain better: in order to reduce as much as possible the space and the cost of the circuit, most applications drive the motor directly from the MAINS: 110 or 220 VAC. This means that you only need an EMI filter, a bridge rectifier and a snubber capacitor.

If you do not care about the torque ripple if often happens that there is no snubber cap.

That said, there is the need to obtain an auxiliary voltage, from 12 to 18 Volt (best is 15 Volt DC), needed by the IPM for the logic parts, and also another 5VDC / 3.3 VDC for the microcontroller. Considering that the microcontroller section should need something between 10 to 30mA, it is CRUCIAL to

understand HOW MUCH CURRENT the Auxiliary Logic Part of the IPM needs to work correctly,

This is really important because you can build an auxiliary PS with very few components (consider for example the LNK30x series coming from Power Integrations, that need just teo diodes, and inductor and two caps).

But these solutions can drive up to 200mA.

How can we be sure that 200/250 mA are enough for our motor applications?

I made some tests, with a PMSM motor that has a power of 500 / 600 W rated power. The maximum speed is 12.000 RPM

Please find attached a couple of screenshots taken from a DSO Rigol DS1074.

The pictures show the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor in series of a 15VDC Power Supply that drives a ICK10H60 IPM, a module for up to 10A applications.

As you can see, there is a relevant peak of current related to the PWM switching frequency. The PWM freq. of the FOC driver is setted a 16Khz.

I would like, if possible, to have more informations and more tables from INFINEON. I assume they made a lot of tests regarding this topic.

I am happy to further discuss and get deeper in this topic.

Best Regards

Fabio

Solved! Go to Solution.

- Tags:
- IFX

1 Solution

Apr 27, 2020
09:59 AM

- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content

Apr 27, 2020
09:59 AM

fabiocer wrote:

Hi All,

i am working for some months with the FOC library and some PMSM motors. The library is really good. Takes some time to set-up but I would like to try the new MCE tools: Designes and Wizard.

Besides, the new range of IPM's are really powerful: there are a lot of deivces, that cover the most frequent motor applications; in fact, you can easily drive motors from few watts to Kw.

In the field of domestic and semi-professional appliances, powers up to 1.000 watt cover the 90% of the possibilities.

Since the space is a critical aspect, especially in domestic and/or handy tools, I would like to underline there is some lack of information regarding the axuliary power supply current consuption.

I try to explain better: in order to reduce as much as possible the space and the cost of the circuit, most applications drive the motor directly from the MAINS: 110 or 220 VAC. This means that you only need an EMI filter, a bridge rectifier and a snubber capacitor.

If you do not care about the torque ripple if often happens that there is no snubber cap.

That said, there is the need to obtain an auxiliary voltage, from 12 to 18 Volt (best is 15 Volt DC), needed by the IPM for the logic parts, and also another 5VDC / 3.3 VDC for the microcontroller. Considering that the microcontroller section should need something between 10 to 30mA, it is CRUCIAL to

understand HOW MUCH CURRENT the Auxiliary Logic Part of the IPM needs to work correctly,

This is really important because you can build an auxiliary PS with very few components (consider for example the LNK30x series coming from Power Integrations, that need just teo diodes, and inductor and two caps).

But these solutions can drive up to 200mA.

How can we be sure that 200/250 mA are enough for our motor applications?

I made some tests, with a PMSM motor that has a power of 500 / 600 W rated power. The maximum speed is 12.000 RPM

Please find attached a couple of screenshots taken from a DSO Rigol DS1074.

The pictures show the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor in series of a 15VDC Power Supply that drives a ICK10H60 IPM, a module for up to 10A applications.

As you can see, there is a relevant peak of current related to the PWM switching frequency. The PWM freq. of the FOC driver is setted a 16Khz.

I would like, if possible, to have more informations and more tables from INFINEON. I assume they made a lot of tests regarding this topic.

I am happy to further discuss and get deeper in this topic.

Best Regards

Fabio

Hi Fabio,

You are correct, we do perform quite a bit of tests on Vdd current. The datasheet only provides the required quiescent current but you can find more information in the IPM application notes. Since you are using IKCM10H60GA, please refer to the CIPOS™ IPM Mini Application note. You can also find it on the IPM Webpage, under documents in the Application Note dropdown. Section 4.3 (page 19) discussed the recommended rated output current of power supply.

Thanks,

Casey

1 Reply

Apr 27, 2020
09:59 AM

- Mark as New
- Bookmark
- Subscribe
- Mute
- Subscribe to RSS Feed
- Permalink
- Report Inappropriate Content

Apr 27, 2020
09:59 AM

fabiocer wrote:

Hi All,

i am working for some months with the FOC library and some PMSM motors. The library is really good. Takes some time to set-up but I would like to try the new MCE tools: Designes and Wizard.

Besides, the new range of IPM's are really powerful: there are a lot of deivces, that cover the most frequent motor applications; in fact, you can easily drive motors from few watts to Kw.

In the field of domestic and semi-professional appliances, powers up to 1.000 watt cover the 90% of the possibilities.

Since the space is a critical aspect, especially in domestic and/or handy tools, I would like to underline there is some lack of information regarding the axuliary power supply current consuption.

I try to explain better: in order to reduce as much as possible the space and the cost of the circuit, most applications drive the motor directly from the MAINS: 110 or 220 VAC. This means that you only need an EMI filter, a bridge rectifier and a snubber capacitor.

If you do not care about the torque ripple if often happens that there is no snubber cap.

That said, there is the need to obtain an auxiliary voltage, from 12 to 18 Volt (best is 15 Volt DC), needed by the IPM for the logic parts, and also another 5VDC / 3.3 VDC for the microcontroller. Considering that the microcontroller section should need something between 10 to 30mA, it is CRUCIAL to

understand HOW MUCH CURRENT the Auxiliary Logic Part of the IPM needs to work correctly,

This is really important because you can build an auxiliary PS with very few components (consider for example the LNK30x series coming from Power Integrations, that need just teo diodes, and inductor and two caps).

But these solutions can drive up to 200mA.

How can we be sure that 200/250 mA are enough for our motor applications?

I made some tests, with a PMSM motor that has a power of 500 / 600 W rated power. The maximum speed is 12.000 RPM

Please find attached a couple of screenshots taken from a DSO Rigol DS1074.

The pictures show the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor in series of a 15VDC Power Supply that drives a ICK10H60 IPM, a module for up to 10A applications.

As you can see, there is a relevant peak of current related to the PWM switching frequency. The PWM freq. of the FOC driver is setted a 16Khz.

I would like, if possible, to have more informations and more tables from INFINEON. I assume they made a lot of tests regarding this topic.

I am happy to further discuss and get deeper in this topic.

Best Regards

Fabio

Hi Fabio,

You are correct, we do perform quite a bit of tests on Vdd current. The datasheet only provides the required quiescent current but you can find more information in the IPM application notes. Since you are using IKCM10H60GA, please refer to the CIPOS™ IPM Mini Application note. You can also find it on the IPM Webpage, under documents in the Application Note dropdown. Section 4.3 (page 19) discussed the recommended rated output current of power supply.

Thanks,

Casey